game of thrones 3x02, dark wings dark words

[janie_tangerine]

aaaand YES I'M DOING REVIEWS AGAIN REGULARLY I'M PROUD OF MYSELF okay down to business now.

premise: no Theon hating k? Just not. Thanks. Also: possible book spoilers though I'm trying to keep it light so thread carefully.

Okay so, general verdict: less all over the place than S2 - as far as it seems - and while there's still stuff I don't like it doesn't seem to be going the clusterfuck way (yet), so I'm going to say I generally liked this except for at least one glaring thing. But more about that in the specific points. So.

1) SOMEONE FINALLY KNOWS THAT BRAN AND RICKON ARE MIA. Just five episodes too late, but alllriiight. The only good thing to come out of this is that when THAT THING HAPPENS Robb won't SPOILER thinking that Theon killed his little brothers, which - well, makes it at least slightly less depressing, but still, what. the. fuck. It should have happened a long time ago.

2) The fact that no one in King's Landing knows makes the Sansa/Tyrells convo look.. well, as a scene in itself it wasn't done badly and also omg Olenna = PERFECT CASTING, but if they don't know that Sansa is actually Robb's heir it makes a lot less sense. Also: WHERE WAS THE BEAR AND THE MAIDEN FAIR, IT WAS THE BEST THING ABOUT THAT SCENE IN THE BOOK. Sorry. But the Sansa/Loras part was done so well.

3) I cackled like crazy during the Joffrey & Margaery scene, okay. Also, poor Cersei. Really. I'm almost feeling bad for how her kid is being like OMG MOM STOP EMBARRASSING ME.

4) The amount of trolling going on with Tyrion and Shae is being out of the world indecent (in every sense of the word). I'm wondering if they're planning on changing a couple of things from the book or if they just want not-book people to punch their screens next season. Mmmh.

5) Meeeh why did they cut so much from the BWB D: Sandor was supposed to show up later, right? D: I mean, I think they could have kept a lot of stuff even if he had showed up like in episode five, but whatever. Beric looks nice, Thoros looks good but is more of a jerk than I remember, please let me have Gendry and Hot Pie forever. Also Arya keeps on being miraculously IC (SOMEONE ELSE WHO'S BEING MORE OR LESS SAVED FROM THE OOC VIRUS), which is good.

6) Bran: yesssssss. The Reeds are totally well cast and I suppose the introduction was as well as it could have been considering the changes. I'm just wondering what's the deal with Osha and Rickon being with them - like, uh, for plot purposes they should be going in the totally opposite direction but then again a) I always thought that Rickon disappearing for three books was bullshit, b) I realize this is television and you can't have a character disappearing for three seasons, so we'll see I guess. There are worse things they could change. Also when he dreamed about Jon and Robb at the beginning ;____;

7) Like Catelyn. Now. Seriously. My current theory is that Talisa has the OOC curse - I.E. whenever someone comes close enough to her to have a conversation they suddenly turned into a bodysnatcher/start acting OOC. Last episode it was Robb and now... Cat is feeling guilty about Jon? Seriously? Okay, uh, just - I think I get it. Or better, I don't *get* it, but I guess they might have done it because since 99% of the reasons people detest Cat and think she's the worst person ever omg go away is that she doesn't like Jon/wasn't a mother to Jon/told Jon THAT quite horrible thing in the books (even if tbh you should take context into account)/thought of Jon - or better, of Jon's possible heirs -as a menace to her own kids first when we all know Jon would kill himself before taking what belongs to his brothers/sisters. So, since everyone-knows-what is happening, they're trying to make Cat more sympathetic to the casual viewer/general audience/people who read the books but are willing to go with their changes by making her regret being mean to Jon or whatever. Which is imo entirely bullshit since if only they had paid more attention/KEPT SOME PLOT POINTS/introduced the Tullys earlier than they are/stopped making Talisa Robb's sensible/pro-peace advisor (that's supposed to be Cat y'all) you wouldn't need to have her regret her behavior to be sympathetic - she has enough reasons on her own for that. Her treatment of Jon is a flaw, but it just makes her human and anyway she has perfectly legitimate medieval-setting reasons for not being entirely cool with the idea of Jon Snow being raised with her kids, though hey I mean it's not like she forbade Ned to do it so just - ugh. WHAT. THE. FUCK. WAS. THAT. Seriously come on. Cat is a good enough character in herself with enough sympathetic traits and who actually can think with her brain and give good advice (SERIOUSLY), you don't need to make her regret not being a mother to Jon to make us like her. Ffs. And this coming from someone who loves Jon, just to state it.

In short: I'll just go blame it on Talisa and on her OOC-turning ways.

8) At least Robb was a bit less of a douche this round (yay, because he's not supposed to), he looked pretty down/depressed (which he should be so double yay), FINALLY KNOWS ABOUT HIS BROTHERS (good too though late) even if when he's all lovey-dovey with Talisa I can't stop rolling my eyes because ugh where's Jeyne W., and HAHAHAHAHAH HIS FACE WHEN THEON WAS BROUGHT UP SERIOUSLY PEOPLE my ship lives forever. Anyway, while I'm still not entirely convinced with this at least Robb's characterization this round wasn't the travesty that last week's was? Small favors.

On that: BRING ON THE TULLYS I've been waiting too long for the Blackfish to happen already. (And to Edmure obviously, but the Blackfish is my favorite forever k.)

9) Since we're on that.

Nope.

I officially can't take an entire season of Theon being tortured OR actually two seasons of... well. you know. I just. Nope. He was in there for maybe five minutes total and it took me fifteen minutes to watch them because I kept pausing while sort of biting on my own fingers and thinking BABY PLEASE NOOOOOOO ;______; like no let's not even get into how he was trying to come up with whatever he thought his torturers wanted to hear because that's bad enough already. But jfc when Ramsay showed up (BECAUSE THAT'S HIM COME ON) and his face was all hopeful and then he was like DON'T LEAVE ME HERE I pretty much died sobbing and decided that next episode will be the death of me because hahahahah THAT'S GOING TO BE A GOOD ESCAPE TENTATIVE WON'T IT. Just leave me here to sob and wish I could cover Theon in cupcakes or something because seriously. Nope. No. Nada. Can't. Do. That.

And I have AN ENTIRE MORE SEASON OF THIS and then if they get to S4 it's probably Reek time and I'M NOT - NOOOOOPEEEEEE.

And btw, there are already assholes on tumblr thinking that he deserves it and they're happy to see it. Thus starts the two months of throwing up in my mouth. /o\

And the thing is that I can't even complain because a) no one's getting character assassinated, b) as far as we know from the book it's totally plausible that some part of what we didn't see went like this. Fuck everything. I can't.

Last thing: someone give Alfie Allen ONE FUCKING INDIVIDUAL AWARD THIS SEASON because he's fucking *good* and just because he happens to play a dude that 70% of the audience hates and 25% doesn't care about it doesn't mean it shouldn't get recognized, thank you all.

10) Or, the only light in this tunnel: JAIME AND BRIENNE COME HERE. First: thank fuck we had that scene where Brienne didn't kill the guy who saw them because at least she doesn't look like she's willing to kill anyone (which could have been gathered from last season). Also well she's not supposed to be that sassy but then again a) Gwen looks too good for that part so I can try to overlook it, b) they banter so deliciously that I can't. Also: NCW is entirely too awesome at his role and sfhfhgdkjghkd the way he sasses Brienne I can't. Also DIJFKFJDGHKD THE SWORD FIIIGHTTTTTT DJKFHSDFHSJHKJFHSKF I wish they had kept the chastising my wife/shall we have this dance quotes but I CAN TOTALLY WORK WITH THIS. Though he has to call her wench before episode five happens plzkthanks. But really, considering everything they're changing *this* part is the one I'm more handwaving about. Now if they keep on that way with Brienne and they stick to the rest of the plot I can totally get behind this.

Also, my otp is flawless. The end.

In conclusion: if Talisa was just GONE I'd enjoy this show a lot more than I currently do since she's fucking with what's in theory my favorite SL after Jaime and Brienne, but as a whole this season seems to be generally better than S2, IF WE DON'T COUNT THE RANDOM BODYSNATCHERS and some plot holes which I suppose they realized later that SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A THING, but for now I can be cool with this. Proved that they don't fuck everything later obviously, but then again we'll see I suppose. But damn, I really wish they kept Jeyne Westerling. Sigh.

Comments

[janie-tangerine.livejournal.com]

... damn, I was kind of hoping I remembered wrong... ://// sadly I think that the Reek stuff was traumatizing enough that I remember pretty much 99% of what I read even if I wish I didn't, but I'm pretty sure that he tried to escape more than once uuugggghhhh.

YES OH MY GOD THAT'S EVEN WORSE though well technically in the book he had gained Theon's trust before stabbing him in the back - except that in the show it's just gonna be worse because y'know the setting and I CAN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT I WANT TO VOMIT WHYYYYYY DDDD: no seriously I need Robb to get back there and walk in on the scene and decide on the spot that what's happened until now was punishment enough okay DDD: (yeaaaah I wish)

And as I read on tumblr before.. I pity the poor Misfits fans who are watching this just for Iwan Rheon and have no idea of what's going to happen DDDD:

Meh I'm pretty much with you on the people I can't ever think could be redeemed and people I detest whose motivations I understand - and yeah exactly if you hated everyone who did something wrong you could only like Sam, Davos and Brienne I think XDDD everyone else *has* done something wrong at some point, you can't really watch/read this expecting great examples of morality from everyone. And same - tbh Ned did a bunch of stupid stuff and I say it while really loving him, so it's not like everyone's flawless. And oh dear don't get me started on Jaime - he used to be my second-favorite when I started reading the entire thing and I never said that I excused him throwing Bran off the window. That was low, but I still liked him as a character and YOU COULDN'T SAY IT OUT LOUD AND EVERYONE WOULD GO 'WHY ARE YOU EXCUSING THAT CHILD MURDERED WITHOUT MORALS WHO FUCKS HIS SISTER' and... I really hope that the current season will get Jaime some more love from non-book readers. Because I srsly really love the guy WHILE knowing he's not an entirely 100% good person, but IT'S NORMAL FFS, I DON'T HAVE TO EXCUSE HIM.

... well, seems like she's coming around! ;) but yeah don't spoil her. Until then at least. XDDD

Wait I actually answered that post O__O and I tagged it twice just to be sure but tumblr apparently decided not to show you? But no it was a totally cool question and I was totally fine with talking about it, wait a moment I'm gonna fish for it. Aaaand here you go (http://janiedean.tumblr.com/post/47023319994/so-you-think-theon-was-raped-during-his-torture#notes) ;) it's stuff I might have considered meta-ing fully about with quotes and stuff but I never went into it because I can't bring myself to re-read the first three Reek chapters, oops. Anyway if you want to discuss it further it's totally okay ;)

[the-crazy-freak.livejournal.com]

Sigh. If only it could end like that, yeah (with Robb saying enough's enough and rescuing him from Ramsay). Unfortunately, Theon suffers a much more cruel fate. ;__;

Oh dear, definitely. Did you watch Misfits as well, btw? I did and when I found out that Rheona was cast as someone (not knowing yet it was Ramsay), I got very excited, but then I got the details and just went "OH GOD NO!" DDD: But I guess he can portray that psychopathic look very well (seriously, his looks as Simon gave me some serious creeps at the beginning of Misfits) and he's got the pale eyes to boot.

Well, to be honest, he wasn't one of my favourites, but I never exactly hated him (maybe momentarily for that whole "pushing Bran out the window" thing). It was more that I didn't care much about his character. But once we got his POV, I totally fell in love. He was just rising up my favourite character ladder until he eventually landed top spot, lol. xD But, I mean, these types of flawed characters are what makes this series so great. You don't have the fairytale good vs. evil (where some people are completely good and others completely evil). You have actual HUMAN characters. Which is probably why I have so many favourites, tbh.

Looks like tumblr messed up, because that post didn't show up in my tag (I track my own tag precisely because of replies, such as yours, but I didn't get notified). -__-;

Well, I'm just going to reply here. Just to clarify one thing first: I used the word "rape-y" in my message because I couldn't find the correct term, but you described it way better - the word I meant was "sexualized". And to answer your question as to which scene I meant, yes, I think it was that one - after Theon came back from (was it Deepwood Motte? I forgot) a mission where he had to secure one of those holds for him (gain it back from the Ironborn) and he succeeded. The way he hugged him (and I think he even kissed his cheek) seemed very sexualized. And then if you couple that together with Theon's thoughts at that moment... He was thinking about Ramsay's smell, I think, and that his words/voice sounded almost sweet. That seemed like something a rape victim in Theon's situation (who has developed a certain level of Stockholm syndrome) might think. So yeah, that was the scene that made me go "woah, did Ramsay abuse him sexually too?" O__o
Hmm, in the scene with Jeyne, I always just assumed that forcing Theon to go down on Jeyne with his mouth was as far as he went with him that night (but that he did a lot of absolutely horrible things to Jeyne), but of course, there's no way for us to know for sure. About Ramsay's relationship with Reek 1.0, though - you think they had a sexual relationship as well? Really? I never got that impression. But maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention to those bits?

As for Theon supposedly being castrated, I think you might be right that it's not as severe as most people think. I remember a line from Ramsay from the wedding night. After Theon had to strip Jeyne, he said something along the lines of "Are you hard?" (that's not the exact quote, because I don't have the books here atm) and, sure, he could be making a sick dig at Theon for not being able to have an erection anymore due to lack of a penis, but it would make more sense to me if Ramsay worded it differentle if that was the case. Something like "Not being able to get hard, eh?" or whatever.

This is obviously all just speculation, though.

[janie-tangerine.livejournal.com]

Seriously I hope someone writes that fic (I'd do it but I have a WIP atm which is based on a similar premise and I can't embark myself on another thing like that XD) D:

No, I didn't watch it because the moment I heard the casting and he started showing up on my dash in his apparently most creepy moments I went like I CAN'T DO THIS, but maaaaybe one day I might give it a try since I've been told I'd like it. And from the gifs I've seen he's actually a good cast for that so I don't have doubts that he's going to do well, it's just that I was in no hurry to see live action Ramsay any time ;)

Lol the thing is that I either like ridiculously nice people (IE Robb) or I go for the questionable morals person with a sense of humor, so while I suppose that saying that I started to like Jaime because he cracked me up might sound kind of ridiculous.. that's kind of what happened? but idk I just was really *fascinated* by the guy and his attitude and everything (and when he showed up with the 'there are no men like me' thing in acok I was all like PLEASE CAN I HAVE YOUR POV), then I got his POV and I was over the moon. XD I live a Jaime appreciation life and regret nothing, but it's not like I think he's a genuinely good dude and he doesn't have to be.

Yeah it did the same to me a bit ago - I saw a couple of friends tagging me but it never showed up on the tag wtf =___=''' *hates on tumblr*

That said no problem, I totally got what you meant with that ;) and yeaaaaah IT WAS WHEN HE CAME BACK FROM DEEPWOOD MOTTE AND RAMSAY TOTALLY KISSED HIM ON THE CHEEK OR SOMETHING and like Theon was thinking stuff that made me totally go 'OH SHIT NO IT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENED I CAN'T', it was sexualized indeed DDDD: not to mention that Theon was no stranger to stockholm syndrome either *cough* the Starks *cough* but with Ramsay/when he was seriously into the Reek persona it was just so blatant, ew. Aaand well with Jeyne it was using the term largely - I mean, if you force someone to rape someone else you're still *forcing* them so you're also raping them even if you don't have a hand in it, if it makes sense - but then there was a point in the other chapter where he mentioned (in his head obviously) the things they did in the wedding night for a moment and then he was like NOPE NO NOT THINKING ABOUT IT GO AWAY and he didn't dwell. Which makes me think that a lot more stuff happened DDD: and I don't even want to know about tbh, I'll be happy with never ever knowing. Then again that's also half the reason why I think that the supposed castration hints are rape hints - he couldn't bring himself to think about the wedding night the same way he can't think about *that other thing* Ramsay supposedly took from him, so.. DDD:

Also mmh idk from what I recall of that story it seemed to me that if it wasn't sexual then they were pretty damn fucking close/platonic/UST-ish (though if they were a thing I think they were consensual. Or as consensual as it goes.).

Most people interpret it as Ramsay mocking him because there's actually nothing down there, but.. well, it might also be that he doesn't get hard because after all that abuse he just doesn't anymore. Or something similar. But still, at some point in the last chapter Theon was thinking about a spearwife that had told him something not too nice and he was like 'if only I could throw you over the table and fuck you', and it sounded more 'I wish I had strength enough to do it because if I did it as I am right now you'd kill me' rather than 'I can't do it because I don't have the equipment' (gosh this sounds horrible, sorry /o\). Also I still think that no one who had been castrated could have survived in his conditions - I can buy that he would because of the cold/without fingers/without getting infections, but castration in a medieval setting? Fuck I mean I doubt many people would realistically survive it in normal circumstances if not done correctly (and if *Ramsay* did it I really doubt it would have been), least of all in THOSE. Then again I'm totally speculating as well, but I'm not buying the castration thing until GRRM spells it out loud for me.

... wow, I can't believe I actually have this much to say about THAT subject /o\ ... ops?

[the-crazy-freak.livejournal.com]

I actually haven't read any ASOIAF/GOT fics yet. I don't know, I think I'm saving that for later (like, during the hiatus when the season finishes).

Oh, that's understandable. I think it's a good thing I've seen Misfits BEFORE he was cast on GOT. Because I loved his character there.

Re Jaime - yeah, exactly. And it's not like good/nice characters with strong ethical morals aren't some of my favourites either (Jon's in my top 5), but morally flawed characters do have an inclination to end up taking like the top 3 favourite characters spots for me. :P

Oh, I see. Yeah, I guess those could be indications of sexual abuse. I also remember another scene where it made me feel that Ramsay was acting in a sexualized way towards Theon. Idk if you saw it that way too, but in that scene where Roose declares that he's taking Theon away from Ramsay and when Ramsay leaves, he stops by Theon (who is chained to the wall, I think, dear god) and then gets all up in his face and says something (don't exactly remember what anymore, but I think it was something like "I'll be getting you back and when I do, I'll torture you for this") in a hushed voice. I'd have to reread (which I don't think I'll be able to for a long time tbh) to know for sure if it gave me sexual vibes, but I think it did.
"I mean, if you force someone to rape someone else you're still *forcing* them so you're also raping them even if you don't have a hand in it, if it makes sense" <-- oh, I know what you mean. I hadn't thought about it that way before, but you're right. :S

Yeah, I'm sure if there was something sexual between Ramsay and the original Reek, it was definitely consensual, because they were kind of like a psychopathic duo (psycho bros) who both enjoyed inflicting pain (and I don't think Reek would let himself be raped by Ramsay).

Oh yeah, I see. Like I said, I don't really believe he was castrated either, but I always felt like I was the only who thought so and I was starting to think I only believe that way because I WANT it to not be true, not because it actually isn't. But you gave me some valid reasosn just now.

Don't worry about it. I know these topics can affect some people pretty badly, so I was a bit reluctant to bring it up in the first place, but I don't really mind if it's discussed in detail (like, it doesn't trigger anything beyond what torture and rape generally trigger in most people - horror and disgust). Hope that made sense.

[janie-tangerine.livejournal.com]

fics are pretty much the only thing that offers me the necessary fluff rn D: and when that happens you realize that this fandom is going to stay angst central for a long time D:

Yeah I probably should have watched it when my entire flist was raving about it, damn it.

Lol exactly - I mean like 3/5 of my top five is robb/brienne/davos so I obviously have a type, BUT I ALSO LIKE CHARMING MORALLY GRAY ASSHOLES WITH A HUMOR OKAY ;)

... right. Yes. That one totally counts too. DDDD: uuughhhh I can't even. and seriously Theon being freaked at Roose actually showing him some kindness (not for real obviously but y'know) was so fucking terrifying DDD: yes it definitely gave the sexual vibes as well, but then again Ramsay is always all *my* Reek here and *my* Reek there and idk if you'd be that possessive when.. well. You aren't also.. ugh well as far as I see it Ramsay sees it as owning Theon completely so that'd probably count for sexually too? Mostly the wedding night thing is.. I generally try not to think about it too hard because I swear I was about to vomit on the book when I read the last page, but when people argue that *it's not true that Ramsay raped Theon how do you even say that*... well, you have textual evidence of the contrary at least in one occasion D:

Yeah I generally see it as a totally psychopathic consensual thing, except that as you stated Reek the first wasn't going to let Ramsay have the upper hand so.. er. I think Ramsay/Theon is sorta reversed? In the sense that Ramsay thinks that he's being to Theon what Reek the first was to him except that Theon was never on board with it.

Nah, it's at least me, you and a guy on the westeros.org forum who thought the same (I usually don't go there because it's full of crazies but while reading adwd I realized that there were people who actually remembered prophecies and shit so I always went to read the single chapter discussion to see if I might have missed something xD), so hey it's three! ;) I actually kind of wanted to write some serious meta on it because since everyone assumes the contrary I figured I'd share the two cents, but as stated I should re-read the Theon adwd chapters and seriously I'd rather re-read the Red Wedding ten times D:

Actually.. it's not even that it *affects* me beyond the general want to vomit either - I mean, THANKFULLY I never experienced any of that so I'm just generally disgusted because I like to think I have some empathy), it's just that realizing that I've just written three paragraphs discussing the reasons why someone might *not* have been castrated always makes me feel weird. Or at least like I've crossed some fandom line that I can't ever take back ;)

[the-crazy-freak.livejournal.com]

Now that you mention it, Brienne and Davos are in my top 5 as well, so I just realised that 3/5 on my list are morally good characters (Brienne, Davos, Jon). The other two (nr. 1 and 2 on my list) are Jaime and Theon.

Yes, I forgot to mention that. All that possessiveness gave me a weird feeling too, but I just kinda put it down to Ramsay being a psycho and not looking at it much from a sexual perspective. I think this conversation has basically made me go from "hmm, I believe there is like a 20% chance that Theon was sexually abused" to "nope, I'm almost 100% certain that he was". DD:
Which makes me think... Do you think there's any chance they'll try to hint at that in the show as well? I don't think they'd actually show anything explicitly in that regard, but maybe hinting at it with words and stuff? :S

Yeah, I think that actually makes sense (in a very twisted way).

Ah, I see. I guess we'll also see if we ever actually find out for sure what happened regarding this. Although maybe we're better off not knowing tbh.

I kinda know what you mean. There have been so many fucked up things in these books, I sometimes ask myself why did I even start reading them in the first place. Seriously, every time something horrible happened, I was sure nothing could top it, but then a few chapters later, I was proven to be wrong (much to my shock and horror). But the Reek chapters were absolutely the worst for me. When I started readign the first one, I honestly couldn't believe it and I had to stop quite a few times throughout just to compose myself and process all the terror. Yeah, I don't think ANYTHING in these books can top Theon's abuse in the "oh god, this is making me sick and making me want to cry at the same time, please make it stop, why is this happening, god no, this is so fucked up" department.
I will never understand how Martin was able to write these things. Like, it was so hard for me to read them, imagine having to fucking WRITE them and PUT YOURSELF INTO THEON'S MINDSET AS REEK... just, how?!
There was a thread I stumbled upon on Reddit, titled something like "What is, in your opinion, the most horrible thing that has happened in the books so far?" and people were bringing up so many different things... It made me realise how many fucked up things have happened in this series. What made me incredibly mad was the fact that someone replied the worst thing was Theon's torture and then somebody else replied that while it was horrible, it wasn't the worst, because at least it only happened to one person and it was instigated by only one individual as well, whereas the 100-something murdered slave children of Meereen (with their heads on spikes) was institutionalised cruelty that happened to so many people (innocent children nonetheless), so it was worse. This might be biased, but I kind of want to punch anyone who says that the Theon torture wasn't the worse, because IT WAS! At least the children all had quick deaths (as in, they didn't suffer through months of abuse to the point of completely losing their fucking identity and being reduced to a shell of their former self and being forced to live with their abuser), jfc!

[janie-tangerine.livejournal.com]

Lol basically we have the same top five except that I have Robb instead of Jon ;) *high five* also Davos appreciation is always awesome XDDD

... er. Uhm. So. There's a pretty detailed spoiler about what happens next episode with Theon that someone with the screeners wrote on winteriscoming.net which makes me think that if D&D thought it happened (and sadly their Theon headcanon seem to be the only one with whom mine coincides) then we're definitely going to see it (hopefully not in detail) and... I really... uuuuuh I'm really not ever looking forward to it DDD: except that since I'm the one saying that I'm sure it happened I can't even curse at them too much. Also.. ops. Sorry for upping those percentages. I think alcohol is needed. D:

I sincerely hope that either we're confirmed that I'm right or I'd rather never know. Thanks. Really. I don't need to know. D:

Jesus same for me. I swear I was sure Theon was dead when I got there (also I wasn't his biggest stan before admittedly), and as I read everything from 1 to 4 in like three weeks and I didn't even remember that Ramsay was posing with the Reek name in acok, when I saw Reek on the chapter I was like 'who the fuck is this even', I felt incredibly uncomfortable for the next few pages while being like 'should I know who this is'. Aaand then I realized who it was and I went like WAIT WHAT THE FUCK WHAT IS THIS WHAT HAPPENED NO NO NO I NEVER THOUGHT HE DESERVED THIS WAIT CAN WE NOT and like seriously the moment Ramsay showed up and started being touchy-feely I think I had forgotten everything except PLEASE DON'T. Then it just got worse DDD: not getting into the wanting to vomit even more when I realized that Theon was twenty-two and I was about to turn 23 a month later... like seriously I suppose it shows that I'm still not over it D: just I swear that at the last page of Ramsay's wedding I went on skype to find the only other person I knew who was reading it at the same time and was two chapters behind me and I went like GO READ THE PRINCE OF WINTERFELL AND TELL ME I IMAGINED IT and then he was like 'ugh no you didn't' and I still think I haven't read anything as disturbing as that. And omg I know, I've written a fair share of fic with post-Reek Theon and I was feeling pain even when I wasn't doing his POV and it was POST-Reek, HOW DOES GRRM DO THAT SERIOUSLY I CAN'T. No really there's nothing as bad as that D:

... also hahahah what. Anything that implies a quick death is BETTER THAN GETTING TORTURED UNTIL YOU DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE WHILE YOUR ABUSER HAS DECIDED THAT HE WANTS TO *OWN* YOU DOWN TO THE BASIC FUNCTIONS WTF. Can't. And seriously I said that before, but 22 year old guy looking like he's sixty = doesn't compute. Like seriously just that should be enough to make someone sick D:

[the-crazy-freak.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I feel like Davos doesn't get enough love. I mean, it's not like people hate him. But they just don't care about him and I'm like HOOOOW?! He's so amazing!! He should totally get more love from the fanbase! <3

Oh my god, wow. O__o Not sure I want to see this tbh. Btw, could you link me to the actual spoiler? I'd like to read it for myself. (It's ok if it's too much bother, though) Well, the thing with D&D and Theon is, I read an interview with D&D once and they were asked which ASOIAF character they were most like and one of them answered Theon (and that he was his fav character as well), which made me really happy because I thought there was no way they were going to fuck up his storyline and deviate from the books too much if one of them loves Theon. Now I'm kinda starting to wish that wasn't completely the case. I mean, I do want them to follow the books and not change characters' personalities and storylines, but... you know. :S

Well, Theon was one of my faves from the beginning (except he wasn't quite as high on my list as he is now), so I was incredibly distraught when he was just like... missing for two books. I believed he wasn't dead, but I was starting to fear he might be (especially since everyone in the books thought so). I was like you, though, when I read the name REEK as the title of the chapter - I was like "who the fuck is this? is it another new character?" but it hit me VERY early on in the chapter that it might be Theon. I just had a sudden "oh god, is this THEON?!!" moment. "please don't let it be Theon. I have to be wrong", but I wasn't and I just... no.

Tbh, I just kinda erase that whole "looks like a 60 year old" from my mind. Because it's just hard for me to imagine that a fucking 22 year old could look like that. Like, HOW?! DD: I'm sure they won't quite go that way on the show at least.

[janie-tangerine.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Davos is the best person in Westeros hands down THE END, HOW DO YOU IGNORE DAVOS INSTEAD OF SHOWERING HIM WITH LOVE. Not to mention that fuck dragons, I still think that the most badass thing anyone's ever done in those books was Davos telling an entire room of Freys that they were bullshitters/turncloaks/traitors tbh. ;)

Also sure thing! The spoiler is in this thread (http://winteriscoming.net/2013/03/new-30-second-promo-gives-us-lots-of-dragon-action/), you're probably better off using the search function. Just look up Ramsay and read the comments by the user named Fire and Blood where the name shows up, there's... well, a lot D: also friendly advice: don't read the other commenters' opinion because after one saying that Theon needed some 'quality raping time' I was about done. :/

also HAHAHAHHHAHAHA YEAH at least he won't get too fucked up with his SL but YOU'D WISH THEY'D GO EASIER ON HIM RIGHT D: at least they're never going to ask Alfie to look like a 60 year old person which is a thing I suppose, but I swear just thinking that he was my age and looked like *that* was enough to get me sick uuuggghhh.

I'll admit that I totally misread his stuff in acok - like, I sort of was feeling for him at the end and when everyone was putting him down in the beginning but I had little sympathy throughout, but I blame it on the fact that I pretty much read through GOT/ACOK/ASOS in two weeks and when I didn't immediately like someone I just didn't pay enough attention so that I could read quickly. Then I had a re-read of his COK stuff and I was like SERIOUSLY SELF WHAT WERE YOU THINKING NOOO HE WAS ALREADY INTERESTING THEN DDD: but anyway I was really sure he had died offscreen by the time I reached adwd, I didn't realize it was him until the two little Walders showed up and then it hit me and 'aaaaaaah NOOOOOOOOO'. DDDD:

[the-crazy-freak.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, WHY DID I READ THAT SPOILER?!! Fuck no!! DDDDD: What the fuck though?! Ramsay doesn't get revealed until late in episode 4?! And yeah, you were right, there was definitely going to be some raping going with Theon, but it struck me as odd that it won't be Ramsay doing it. Like, as fucked up as this is going to sound, I actually don't think he'd be ok with other people raping him (maybe that's one part of the reason he kills those 4 of his men - WHAT AM I EVEN SAYING?!!?) because of the possessivness thing (I mean seriously, he got so fucking upset about his father taking Theon away from him!) and the thing you mentioned with Reek 1.0 (the consensual psycho sex) But it's true that this is only the beginning, so he didn't have any of that "obsession" with Theon yet, since Theon wasn't Reek yet. But well, since we see Bolton's men raping him, I'm now quite positive that we'll probably see Ramsay do it too, which... I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO THINK, LET ALONE SAY. :[ (especially considerng the fact that I accepted the rape as pretty much canon only recently) And I didn't read any of the replies to that. All I can say is, what the fuck is wrong with people?!

Yeah, I can totally understand that.

[janie-tangerine.livejournal.com]

The thing is that apparently the gang rape thing was a set-up - I think he specified it later but basically Ramsay kills his own men just before it actually happens (supposedly just to fuck with Theon, which... well wow they aren't making him any less psycho), but still, if they're willing to show Theon being almost gang-raped by more than one person... I can totally see them willing to show it fully later D: (also totally with you on Ramsay probably wanting him just for himself - uuughhh all over again DDDD:) just - I like to think that since I've been convinced of it since forever I'll be reasonably braced when it happens but... I'm not sure at all. Also there was like one person who protested against the quality rape thing but she was shot down because 'if we monitor that then where's the freedom of speech'. Ah, this fandom. *facepalm*

[the-crazy-freak.livejournal.com]

Oh... WHAT THE FUCK?! DDD: You're right, they're making him even more psycho. Ugh, I think I've had enough of this discussion for now (I'm sure it'll continue once the actual episodes air though). I'm going to bed and I might get nightmares from it tbh. :S Btw, your icon isn't helping (because "you have to remember your NAME"). DD:

Ugh, are they for real?!! They're using free speech as an excuse?! No, just... no. No comment tbh. >__>

[janie-tangerine.livejournal.com]

HAVE A NICER ICON ;___; and yeah I'll follow the example and go crash - hopefully if I wish it hard enough I'm going to have nice dreams where robb gets there and there's rescuing and heartfelt teary apologies D: (I sincerely hope you don't get nightmares though D:)

Yeah. Uhm freedom of speech doesn't justify everything last I checked *facepalm forever*