got 2x06 the old gods and the new

[janie_tangerine]

Okay, premise: if we all want to discuss Theon like civilized people, that's cool. If the general opinion is 'OMG SOMEONE KILL HIM ASAP' just don't bother. Just don't.

1. Okay, stuff that I don't FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT FIRST: Dany, sorry, but I just don't care about your revenge dreams. And there was no Jorah to ogle at, so yeah. Sorry. But the 'I'll take what's mine with fire and blood' thing is getting old. Also, your dad was a crappy king and he said exactly the same stuff - just think about it.

2. About more important things: RIOT SCENE EVERYONE.

First, woooaaaah HBO, thanks for all the gore. That was disgusting. But that said, I'm glad they did it like that - mostly because at least it sent our lovely people ruling a reminder that the people they're supposed to rule aren't there to just bow in front of them when they aren't, well, frankly giving a shit. Yes, I was also referring to Cersei being like 'who gives a shit about the smallfolk', and say what you want but if you want to be a decent ruler you should at least consider the poor bastards you're supposed to rule. Then again the point isn't that any of the people up there are decent, but hey, I'm the kind of person that usually approves of riots. (Democracy in Westeros FTW! *cough* or at least, A PARLIAMENT IN WESTEROS FTW.)

Apart from the political rant, HI, MY SANSA/SANDOR FEELINGS, THEY'RE VERY VERY VERY HIGH RIGHT NOW. That scene. YES. I loved that they actually showed it fully rather than having Sandor telling Tyrion or how the heck it was in the book.

No seriously YES to all of that. I feel like I'm not very eloquent but what little Sansa/Sandor stuff happened this season pretty much fit my expectations, so.

3. JON AND YGRITTE = SHOW, THANK YOU. Just. Thank you. Rose Leslie is perfect. PERFECT. And the dialogue. And Ygritte humping him. And HE DOESN'T KNOW YET BUT HE TOTALLY STOLE HER. JUST YES TO ALL OF THAAAAAATTTT.

4. Okay, on to the main issue.

Theon, you totally flawless fucked up mess, let me have feelings while watching you being a trainwreck. I've surfed online some to find out that he's, in the order, comparable to Hitler, an ungrateful fuck, a total and complete dick, deserving of every horrible thing in the world, and that he's such a failure that he can't even cut one head in one go.

Or, just starting at random: that totally was the point. To cut a head in one go you have to be either Ned Stark or Ilyn Payne, and Robb didn't cut the Karstark's guy head in a single blow either - HOW ABOUT THAT. Of course he couldn't cut off Ser Rodrik's head in one go. And mind that he was taking the supposed iron price in the Stark way - I don't think Ironborn give much of a shit about how you kill a prisoner. And when Bran asked him if he hated them all since he was at Winterfell, he looked hurt (ALFIE ALLEN ALL THE AWARDS), because he doesn't hate them. He wants to be one of them (which he never was, and sorry about the OMG HE'S SO UNGRATEFUL THEY LOVED HIM SO MUCH - no. Read the book. Robb was the only one he was close to. He technically doesn't owe them anything and he DID try to get Robb the alliance.) And now that he is in name, he wants to be one in fact, and he utterly and totally fails at it. People were like 'LOL NO ONE WOULD FOLLOW HIM', but it's not.. funny. It's that he's a bad leader and he's doing it the wrong way - the Ironborns can't respect him because he's a stranger to their customs (he had to have Dagmer explaining him how to do it ffs) and at Winterfell they never liked him that much/taken him seriously. Of course it's a trainwreck. It has to be a trainwreck. That's why he's a TRAGIC character, ffs.

That said, people hating on Osha are ridiculous. It was obvious she was trying to sleep with him just to get Bran and Rickon to run. *facepalm*

But still about Theon: I don't really mind that they had Ser Rodrik die now rather than later - it totally proves the point they wanted to make and it doesn't really make much of a difference. It just shows you how truly he fucked up. (PS: he didn't -want- to do it. He wouldn't have if his right hand man hadn't insisted.) And yes, saying that he just wants his family to acknowledge him is a shitty excuse, but as stated, he's been a trainwreck since he burned Robb's letter. Of course he fucks up. And it still doesn't make him Hitler or OMG THE WORST PERSON EVER HE SHOULD BE BURNED ALIVE.

Tldr: I obviously do NOT approve of Theon going all 'YEAAAH I'M TAKING WINTERFELL' but I get why he'd do it (considering that his train of thought is utterly fucked by this point) and I'll just weep my bitter tears and feel heartbroken.

4. Bran: ;_____________________________; (and Rickon too oh god) that scene at the beginning when Theon barged in was just - they really pulled that off, with Bran not even believing it at the beginning. And 'did you always hate us' UGH. MY HEARTTTT. (Also: 'I can't fight for Robb and my father at the same time' - LOOK WHO WAS MENTIONED FIRST. Theon, you just really want to be a Stark. Sigh. You're the most flawless fucked up trainwreck ever.)

5. Errrrr soooo wait, if Bran and Rickon are escaping now... are they doing this without the Reed kids? ....... I'm not so sure it could work out. Brb waiting to judge.

6. Good to know Robb isn't easily trolled. Just tell us that the girl's name is Jeyne Westerling.

7. Canon change approved: Robb and Brienne in the same scene.

8. ROBB'S REACTION TO THE NEWS ABOUT WINTERFELL UUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I'LL TAKE HIS HEAD MYSELF MY POOR SAD TRAGIC SHIP. ;______________________________;

And clearly Roose Bolton had to happen. Fuck you, ser. You and your bastard son. (I'm torn between being happy to know they didn't change that part and dreading it. And the worst thing is that the bastard son will get less hate than Theon is getting right now. Wanna bet?)

9. That said Richard Madden you look gorgeouuussss. #shallow

10. I also had shit to say about Arya and about how much I can't hate Tywin and possibly about Tyrion and Cersei but I have class in five minutes so this'll have to suffice for now.

Comments

[quantumdoll.livejournal.com]

Can I just share in all your feels please? *revels in them* I remember reading A clash of Kings and being like "wow Theon you little fuck" but damn...you just know what is coming, and I think if people looked a little harder at his character, instead of seeing him as a mini tyrant (that would be Joffrey) they'd see what a fantastic actor Alfie Allen is. The scene where he stormed Winterfell was executed perfectly. He's such an awkward boy, he could literally see him losing to Bran when he asked Bran to hand Winterfell over. He has no one who cares, no one who loves him. The Greyjoys think Theon is a joke, the folk of Winterfell don't care about him one way...he's pathetic, and lost. I can't hate Theon, I could never hate him. He's so very human, so damn flawled, and how can you hate someone for making human mistakes. I actually shivered when Roose mentioned Ramsey Snow.

Sandor and Sansa. Ye gods. HE CALLED HER LITTLE BIRD! ADJALKFHLAJHF;AH

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

1. I'm finding it amazing how my interest is shifting in show vs. books. Because I was rooting for Dany in the books, but she's just not making me care in the show! Opposite for Cercei - I mean I'm not rooting for her, but I don't think she's the most boring thing ever in the show.

2. ENTRAILS! Sandor/Sansa FTW!

3. Insanely happy with that part :D

4. Strangely, I'm coming to sympathize with Theon now. Which I didn't in the books at all. Mostly I'm just yelling at him "YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THIS! BE SMARTER!"

How can anyone hate Osha? HOW?! No. Don't tell me. I don't want to know.

5. OMG I totally forgot about them! Maybe they'll meet them on the way instead?

6. Yes.

[falafel-musings.livejournal.com]

It's soooo good to come to a sympathetic Theon post! Yes, there is a lot of hate around...even on my flist made up of fans who usually like complex conflicted 'villain' characters. I feel your pain. Several of my favourite BSG characters ended up being 'traitors' for very tragic reasons and fandoms do seem to reserve a special hatred for formerly trusted characters who turn against the 'good guys' of the show.

I was talking to Lenina (where is she?) recently comparing Theon's childhood situation to Sansa's. Both taken hostage as children by families who killed members of their family. Both seemingly treated well by their captors, well fed, well dressed, etc. Yes, Sansa's life was threatened over Robb's rebellion but it's my understanding that if Balon had rebelled again then Theon's life would've been under threat too. As honorable as Ned was, he was still a soldier. I don't think he'd have taken Theon hostage if he wasn't prepared to use him as a hostage if needs be.

Now, if Sansa were sent back to the Starks and then helped them overthrow Kings Landing and take all the Lannisters prisoner I don't think Sansa would be viewed as a traitor even though several of Team Lannister (the Hound, Tyrion, etc) have been kind to her. Of course the big difference here is Theon is not a girl. It's acceptable for a girl to be a helpless hostage. A boy is expected to avenge his father and brothers. Theon was an innocent pawn when he was taken prisoner by the Starks. I was rewatching some S1 scenes and he really seemed to be in denial about his situation, calling himself a 'ward' and cutting anyone off if they tried to call him anything else. Theon had no choice yet his father seems to blame him for being taken hostage and his sister mocks him him for it. Just like Robb and Jon, Theon is at an age where he is trying to prove himself as a man but he's already had so many people emasculate him for a situation in which he was a powerless child prisoner. And not just his father and sister - in S1 both Tyrion and Ros mock Theon for his 'loyalty to his captors' so he's scorned on both sides for a hostage situation in which he was the victim. That's harsh!

As I've said on another LJ I think Theon had imagined he could be a kind merciful captor in Winterfell as much as Ned Stark was a kind merciful captor to him. It's interesting how Theon is vaguely friendly to Bran, like nothing much has changed, it's just Bran is going to be the prisoner now not Theon. But of course the Iron born are a ruthless bloodthirsty gang so Theon must do things their way to prove whose side he's really on. Theon really doesn't know what he's doing. The confused panic in Alfie Allen's eyes (even as he tries to sound commanding) was so perfect. Another great actor in this stellar cast.

Dany's Dragons Dragonnapped?!!

[princessaudrii.livejournal.com]

WTF? Was I the only one who doesn't remember this being in the book?

Did that happen?

[irisparry.livejournal.com]

Oh God, I don't think I have gotten through 5 minutes of Alfie Allen screen time without weeping like a child this season - and it just isn't going to let up! I think the complexity of the character is more apparent in the series than the books. The beheading scene in Winterfell was SO harrowing because a) Bran was incredible but mainly b) Theon was so obviously completely hysterically bricking it. When Ser Rodrik said "Gods help you, Theon Greyjoy, now you are truly lost" I thought YES and he knows it, just look at his face! His eyes kept getting wider and he was barely holding it together. Made me think of the later scenes in Macbeth - "I am in blood / stepped in so far, that, should I wade no more / Returning were as tedious as go o'er." Deep down (or not so deep) he knows he's totally screwed.

Daenerys is boring the crap out of me even earlier than in the books, and one really ought not to feel that way about a character with BABY DRAGONS ferchrissakes.

Jon Snow was a bit of a berk this week - just made Ygritte seem even more awesome. I can't wait til she says IT (should be a ' finish the bottle' moment in the drinking game - well, the first time at least, or things'd just get out of hand). I disapprove of her escaping rather than him letting her go though. Thought that was an important distinction. I think they wanted to play up the contrasts with Theon's attempt at beheading/following orders/ proving himself though.

I Disapprove of this Robb/lady whatsername business. Don't see what they're hoping to add, and I think the sense of duty he has toward Jeyne in the book - rather than just falling head over heels in looooooove - is important to who he is.

[moneeypenny.livejournal.com]

if we all want to discuss Theon like civilized people, that's cool. If the general opinion is 'OMG SOMEONE KILL HIM ASAP'
This is a very important matter, srsly I'm not even discussing the eps. with irl rn, because they all are this way :(

I don't care about Dany either <33 And I don't want her to be the queen of westeros. I want westeros be divided in 7 kingdoms again :D

The almost rape scene of sansa. JFC. I WAS SO SCARED FOR HER. It was so distressful seeing that. Thank god for Sandor coming to rescue his little bird.

I think I love Ygritte more in the tv show that in the books. Rose is perfect!

IA WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT THEON. *UGLYSOBBING*
supposed iron price in the Stark way OMG, this said so much about theon life in general, always between places, never belonging anywhere :(
Alfie to all the awards tbh. I love how in every scene his face show confuse, doubtful, strangling with his decisions

4. MFTE. Bran and Rickon made me weep. ._.

8. I LOVE HOW HE SAID: I WANT HIM ALIVE TO LOOK IN HIS EYES AND ASK WHY. DHSIUGVFAGHNJBHCJBJHGBFDJHFD sobbing. theonxrobb is canon, man.

Something that don't have in the books, but I approve very much it's the "friendship" between sansa and shae :D